Let's Spent $1,000,000 on Facebook Ads...

Joshua Maddux: 00:00:25

Awesome today.

Joshua Maddux: 00:00:26

We have Charlie Kitchener on on, in the bunker and Charlie was

Joshua Maddux: 00:00:31

really faced with a challenge of.

Joshua Maddux: 00:00:33

Consistent change in the digital marketing landscape and the ever-growing number

Joshua Maddux: 00:00:38

of businesses that are using the same platforms with online competition,

Joshua Maddux: 00:00:43

continuing to grow, and the ability to make a sale being harder than it's ever

Joshua Maddux: 00:00:47

been before he was facing this challenge on a daily basis with their clients.

Joshua Maddux: 00:00:53

However, despite the.

Joshua Maddux: 00:00:55

He's made it through and has over seven years of experience in really

Joshua Maddux: 00:00:59

helping businesses have that strategic and creative problem solving aspect

Joshua Maddux: 00:01:03

to overcome those marketing issues.

Joshua Maddux: 00:01:05

He's helped build brands in an ever-changing world of the digital

Joshua Maddux: 00:01:09

marketing space and in spite of costs, continuing to rise and

Joshua Maddux: 00:01:13

global consensus overall dropping.

Joshua Maddux: 00:01:15

There's so much to learn from this.

Joshua Maddux: 00:01:17

And I'm super excited to jump in and learn about how Charlie's overcame this issue.

Joshua Maddux: 00:01:24

Great to have you all on and spend a little time to chat with you

Charles Tichenor: 00:01:27

today.

Charles Tichenor: 00:01:27

Oh, well, thank you so much for having me, man.

Charles Tichenor: 00:01:29

I appreciate it.

Charles Tichenor: 00:01:30

It's a, it's a beautiful day here in LA.

Charles Tichenor: 00:01:33

I promise outside that window.

Charles Tichenor: 00:01:35

I can, there's not a cloud.

Charles Tichenor: 00:01:38

I can see outside of this window.

Charles Tichenor: 00:01:39

So it's a pretty good day.

Joshua Maddux: 00:01:41

That's awesome.

Joshua Maddux: 00:01:42

That's awesome.

Joshua Maddux: 00:01:43

Cool.

Joshua Maddux: 00:01:43

Yeah.

Joshua Maddux: 00:01:44

I'm in the LA area as well, so it's really good to chat and, you know talk about

Joshua Maddux: 00:01:47

the 93 degree weather outside today.

Joshua Maddux: 00:01:49

And when is it not though?

Joshua Maddux: 00:01:51

Awesome.

Joshua Maddux: 00:01:51

Well, let's do this.

Joshua Maddux: 00:01:52

Let's have you give a sort of a 92nd background.

Joshua Maddux: 00:01:55

Like who are you?

Joshua Maddux: 00:01:56

How'd you get here?

Joshua Maddux: 00:01:59

What does that look like?

Charles Tichenor: 00:01:59

Yeah.

Charles Tichenor: 00:02:00

So I'm Charlie, I'm one of the top a hundred Facebook

Charles Tichenor: 00:02:02

advertisers in the United States.

Charles Tichenor: 00:02:04

And a lot of the other ones are students of mine.

Charles Tichenor: 00:02:06

Over the last near decade, I've really, I came up starting an organic

Charles Tichenor: 00:02:12

and then started getting into paid.

Charles Tichenor: 00:02:13

And shortly in a, in a, in a small amount of time, I went from putting

Charles Tichenor: 00:02:18

my credit card in Facebook to promote some local projects, to managing a

Charles Tichenor: 00:02:22

million dollars a day for big brands on behalf of global international, you

Charles Tichenor: 00:02:26

know ad agencies with big CBS television Nissan, a million different things that

Charles Tichenor: 00:02:31

the list goes on and on and on and on.

Charles Tichenor: 00:02:33

And over that time of.

Charles Tichenor: 00:02:36

To build a career around challenging what people think you necessarily

Charles Tichenor: 00:02:40

should be doing and how that applies into the digital space.

Charles Tichenor: 00:02:44

Especially with Facebook at the time being very nuanced and

Charles Tichenor: 00:02:48

very early on in the system.

Charles Tichenor: 00:02:50

So I've been able to grow along with it.

Charles Tichenor: 00:02:52

And as a result of spending a lot of money and doing a lot of case studies

Charles Tichenor: 00:02:56

and challenging the status quo, I ended up getting known by Facebook as

Charles Tichenor: 00:02:59

somebody that worked very well with them.

Charles Tichenor: 00:03:02

And I ended up working really closely with their engineering department

Charles Tichenor: 00:03:05

and product team to define a lot of what things are supposed to be done.

Charles Tichenor: 00:03:09

And now a lot of those case studies are sort of taught by Facebook

Charles Tichenor: 00:03:12

to experts in agencies, be a reps is what you're supposed to do.

Charles Tichenor: 00:03:17

And over that time, I've spent a couple of hundred million dollars.

Charles Tichenor: 00:03:20

I've got hundreds of case studies.

Charles Tichenor: 00:03:22

I brought the dynamic product ads and lead gen ad unit to market.

Charles Tichenor: 00:03:26

I was in the alphas for those and a lot of other things that never made it to

Charles Tichenor: 00:03:28

market because they never actually worked.

Charles Tichenor: 00:03:30

And now I'm just really in the space of trying to help brands see success

Charles Tichenor: 00:03:35

and really understand like what you can do to minimize your time and

Charles Tichenor: 00:03:39

maximize your profit because I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding

Charles Tichenor: 00:03:43

around how Facebook is supposed to be.

Charles Tichenor: 00:03:46

And I think that comes from either people, a coming from email or Google or

Charles Tichenor: 00:03:51

B learning after Facebook was super easy from other people that had no idea what

Charles Tichenor: 00:03:56

they were doing were just in the right place at the right time of the world.

Charles Tichenor: 00:03:58

Really good brand.

Charles Tichenor: 00:03:59

And the honest truth is about 80% of the people that buy media on Facebook

Charles Tichenor: 00:04:04

have a fundamental misunderstanding of how the platform works and I'm here

Charles Tichenor: 00:04:07

to help people see success with that.

Charles Tichenor: 00:04:09

And that's kind of where I'm at.

Joshua Maddux: 00:04:12

Awesome.

Joshua Maddux: 00:04:12

Awesome.

Joshua Maddux: 00:04:13

Now I want to hone in on one thing you said you've you have in a single

Joshua Maddux: 00:04:19

day done a million dollar ad buy.

Joshua Maddux: 00:04:22

Oh yeah.

Joshua Maddux: 00:04:23

Now it doesn't require a million dollars to run a Facebook ad campaign.

Joshua Maddux: 00:04:28

Sure.

Joshua Maddux: 00:04:29

But the budgets can be anywhere from, you know, $2 a day to

Joshua Maddux: 00:04:34

millions of dollars a day.

Joshua Maddux: 00:04:36

And in reality, You know, the, the strategy and some

Joshua Maddux: 00:04:41

of that type has aspects.

Joshua Maddux: 00:04:43

It doesn't really change much irrelevant of you're spending $2 or $2 million.

Joshua Maddux: 00:04:50

Yeah.

Joshua Maddux: 00:04:50

I

Charles Tichenor: 00:04:51

mean, I will say this, it depends on where your business is, but

Charles Tichenor: 00:04:55

what matters way more than anything else?

Charles Tichenor: 00:04:57

I mean, look, it's nice to say, put some stuff down there.

Charles Tichenor: 00:05:00

Like, oh, I spent 10 million then.

Charles Tichenor: 00:05:02

That sounds fun.

Charles Tichenor: 00:05:03

You also rip your hair out, but it sounds fun.

Charles Tichenor: 00:05:06

And you know, it's, it's a nice sounding thing and, and between a bunch of brands

Charles Tichenor: 00:05:09

and a bunch of different platforms, and that's just on Facebook at the same

Charles Tichenor: 00:05:12

time as doing the same thing on Twitter and having, you know, Pinterest and

Charles Tichenor: 00:05:15

LinkedIn, but Facebook is our main lane.

Charles Tichenor: 00:05:18

The.

Charles Tichenor: 00:05:20

It really comes down to one of four business objectives.

Charles Tichenor: 00:05:22

Are you trying to get top line growth, bottom line growth market

Charles Tichenor: 00:05:25

share or awareness and whatever it is that you're trying to do for your

Charles Tichenor: 00:05:29

business, the strategy to maximize your investment should be whatever that is.

Charles Tichenor: 00:05:35

At the end of the day, your Facebook ad account is around business is around

Charles Tichenor: 00:05:40

your business development strategy.

Charles Tichenor: 00:05:42

And the, what you should be doing is understanding what is the unfair

Charles Tichenor: 00:05:47

advantage that this platform can bring.

Charles Tichenor: 00:05:50

To your ecosystem and then leveraging that to the nth degree.

Charles Tichenor: 00:05:54

And yeah, the same thing I do at 500, a days more or less what I do

Charles Tichenor: 00:05:59

at 50,000 a day because Facebook's business model hasn't changed in

Charles Tichenor: 00:06:04

years and their algorithm has had two updates since I started in 20 13,

Charles Tichenor: 00:06:10

20 14 at a million dollar budgets.

Charles Tichenor: 00:06:13

So.

Charles Tichenor: 00:06:15

What works is always working.

Charles Tichenor: 00:06:17

What doesn't work generally continues to not work.

Charles Tichenor: 00:06:20

And there are people that can do things wrong and they'll still succeed

Charles Tichenor: 00:06:22

because their business model works.

Charles Tichenor: 00:06:24

And there are people in the bad business, no matter what they do on Facebook,

Charles Tichenor: 00:06:27

all they're going to end up doing is spending a whole bunch of money,

Charles Tichenor: 00:06:29

telling people they have a bad business.

Charles Tichenor: 00:06:31

So it is fairly consistent.

Joshua Maddux: 00:06:34

Yeah.

Joshua Maddux: 00:06:34

And those are, those are the businesses that don't understand

Joshua Maddux: 00:06:37

their ideal, you know, their ideal customer who their target market is.

Joshua Maddux: 00:06:41

And.

Joshua Maddux: 00:06:42

If you don't understand who your target market is, your ideal client,

Joshua Maddux: 00:06:46

you shouldn't be advertising yet.

Joshua Maddux: 00:06:49

Unless you're attempting to get more data to figure out a product or something.

Joshua Maddux: 00:06:53

But at that point you should be seriously working with someone

Joshua Maddux: 00:06:56

who knows what they're doing.

Joshua Maddux: 00:06:58

Yeah.

Charles Tichenor: 00:06:59

Yeah, absolutely.

Joshua Maddux: 00:07:01

I want to dive in to talk about your sort of big challenge.

Joshua Maddux: 00:07:05

What is your biggest challenge that you've faced in, in business?

Joshua Maddux: 00:07:11

You know, in regard to.

Charles Tichenor: 00:07:12

Yeah.

Charles Tichenor: 00:07:13

I mean, I think the biggest challenge that we're seeing, especially, I

Charles Tichenor: 00:07:17

mean, in the Facebook ads world in the marketing in general, between iOS 15

Charles Tichenor: 00:07:21

and iOS 14, I mean every year apple releases a new operating system that

Charles Tichenor: 00:07:24

creates a lot of havoc for everybody.

Charles Tichenor: 00:07:27

iOS 14 was the end of the world end of days.

Charles Tichenor: 00:07:30

And so as iOS 12, and so was the implementation of that

Charles Tichenor: 00:07:34

Facebook pixel, because back in the day that didn't even exist.

Charles Tichenor: 00:07:38

We didn't even have a conversion.

Charles Tichenor: 00:07:39

I was spending a million dollars a day when it was just the PPC

Charles Tichenor: 00:07:41

platform, trying to meet with Google.

Charles Tichenor: 00:07:44

End of the days, every time they make an update.

Charles Tichenor: 00:07:46

But the problem is if you run a business that gets used to being successful by

Charles Tichenor: 00:07:51

you doing certain things, and then people change the rules or make it harder for

Charles Tichenor: 00:07:55

you to do things in a way that you figured out, then it ultimately does make it

Charles Tichenor: 00:08:02

more difficult to get people to buy in.

Charles Tichenor: 00:08:04

And I think one of the biggest struggles that I've been facing

Charles Tichenor: 00:08:07

a lot with, with brands is.

Charles Tichenor: 00:08:10

Really letting them know how to pivot their model, that didn't necessarily

Charles Tichenor: 00:08:14

rely on treating their partners or their vendors in the way that they should have.

Charles Tichenor: 00:08:19

I mean, the honest truth is people were able to several years ago, basically do

Charles Tichenor: 00:08:26

everything wrong and print a lot of money.

Charles Tichenor: 00:08:28

And the law of diminishing the returns that they've gotten from them.

Charles Tichenor: 00:08:32

It has been something that the global consensus of Facebook ads is that

Charles Tichenor: 00:08:39

it's harder and harder to make money.

Charles Tichenor: 00:08:40

It's wildly unstable.

Charles Tichenor: 00:08:41

They're just trying to take your money from you.

Charles Tichenor: 00:08:43

You shouldn't trust them on things.

Charles Tichenor: 00:08:44

And like it's just getting more and more expensive.

Charles Tichenor: 00:08:46

And at some point it's just going to stop working.

Charles Tichenor: 00:08:49

The honest truth is if you have a good business model and you know how

Charles Tichenor: 00:08:53

to work, the machine millionaires are getting made every single day.

Charles Tichenor: 00:08:57

I mean, I've had clients double their ad budget this year.

Charles Tichenor: 00:09:01

In spite of everything that's happening because it provides

Charles Tichenor: 00:09:04

a great opportunity for them because they're doing things well.

Charles Tichenor: 00:09:07

So I think the biggest challenge is one getting business owners to understand

Charles Tichenor: 00:09:12

the mental shift that they have to make.

Charles Tichenor: 00:09:15

And also it's being able to communicate what they're supposed to do, especially

Charles Tichenor: 00:09:21

when, for what it's worth the vast majority of experts out there.

Charles Tichenor: 00:09:27

I don't know what they're supposed to do with contextual information.

Charles Tichenor: 00:09:32

So there, if you're in a room and 99 out of a hundred, people say

Charles Tichenor: 00:09:35

you're supposed to do something.

Charles Tichenor: 00:09:37

And then somebody else says, well, no, everybody's complaining

Charles Tichenor: 00:09:40

because they're wrong.

Charles Tichenor: 00:09:42

Here's what you're supposed to do.

Charles Tichenor: 00:09:44

It becomes very alienated.

Charles Tichenor: 00:09:46

But you know, it, it.

Charles Tichenor: 00:09:48

It's validating to see that 99% of the people in the room turning tomorrow

Charles Tichenor: 00:09:53

60 or 70% because the other 20 or 30 are quoting things that I did two,

Charles Tichenor: 00:09:57

three years ago, they're catching up, but at least we're getting there.

Charles Tichenor: 00:10:01

But that's the big challenge is really getting people to buy in when

Charles Tichenor: 00:10:03

there's so much bad information.

Charles Tichenor: 00:10:06

And also it's very predatory space.

Charles Tichenor: 00:10:08

You know, there's a lot of folks that.

Charles Tichenor: 00:10:10

No, there's a lot of money to be made because everybody wants to make money.

Charles Tichenor: 00:10:15

And so there's a cash grab of like, let me just put out as much

Charles Tichenor: 00:10:18

bad information as I possibly can.

Charles Tichenor: 00:10:19

And then you some version of why people should trust me to get their cash in hand.

Charles Tichenor: 00:10:24

And I can't tell you how many people I know that are really,

Charles Tichenor: 00:10:27

really good business people.

Charles Tichenor: 00:10:29

They run really successful agencies that tell you how to run your ads

Charles Tichenor: 00:10:35

and my response to anybody that says, well, this guy tells me.

Charles Tichenor: 00:10:38

It's like, great.

Charles Tichenor: 00:10:39

They're really good at running the business.

Charles Tichenor: 00:10:40

If your iPhone breaks, does Tim cook have the answer on how to fix it?

Charles Tichenor: 00:10:45

Answer is no.

Charles Tichenor: 00:10:46

You would never ask the executive running a multi-billion dollar

Charles Tichenor: 00:10:49

company, how to handle your executional problems because that's not their job.

Charles Tichenor: 00:10:54

They shouldn't know that there are plenty of other things

Charles Tichenor: 00:10:56

that they're really good at.

Charles Tichenor: 00:10:58

And so getting your answer from somebody whose day job has no bearing

Charles Tichenor: 00:11:02

on being able to answer your question.

Charles Tichenor: 00:11:05

Pollutes the space.

Charles Tichenor: 00:11:07

And so I think one of the biggest things is just being able to cut through so much

Charles Tichenor: 00:11:11

of the noise, because part of being able to cut through that noise also positioned

Charles Tichenor: 00:11:15

you as sort of a contrarian and you know, it doesn't help that Facebook calls

Charles Tichenor: 00:11:21

their elite group of advertisers, the disruptor group and disruptor brands.

Charles Tichenor: 00:11:25

So when I come into a space I'm awfully disruptive because I'm one

Charles Tichenor: 00:11:28

of the lead people in that group and it can be off-putting and.

Charles Tichenor: 00:11:33

I think the last big piece, there is a lot of these folks that are experts in

Charles Tichenor: 00:11:39

their field, or very highly regarded that have been around for a long time.

Charles Tichenor: 00:11:44

A lot of them don't know that they don't know what they're

Charles Tichenor: 00:11:47

doing, which is a real big issue.

Charles Tichenor: 00:11:49

And I know a lot of very successful people that came up because they had a few really

Charles Tichenor: 00:11:56

successful clients will honestly would have succeeded with or without them.

Charles Tichenor: 00:11:59

And I'm Ben in that space.

Charles Tichenor: 00:12:02

I used to work with Activision.

Charles Tichenor: 00:12:04

The call of duty launch was like $15 million over a month.

Charles Tichenor: 00:12:08

Do you think they needed my Facebook ad account to make call of duty

Charles Tichenor: 00:12:11

for a successful business venture?

Charles Tichenor: 00:12:13

No, you don't.

Charles Tichenor: 00:12:15

When CBS is launching a TV show, like the new host of the late show,

Charles Tichenor: 00:12:20

they don't need my media dollars to make that show a success.

Charles Tichenor: 00:12:24

And there's a lot of agencies that came up with those great clients and

Charles Tichenor: 00:12:28

they were able to make things work by brute force and a lot of tests.

Charles Tichenor: 00:12:32

But it doesn't mean that what they were doing was bright.

Charles Tichenor: 00:12:35

It just means they had a client that was so good that they could do

Charles Tichenor: 00:12:37

everything wrong and still succeed.

Charles Tichenor: 00:12:39

And they've been around long enough that they have this perceived legitimacy.

Charles Tichenor: 00:12:45

So I think the biggest struggle is getting people to buy into something

Charles Tichenor: 00:12:49

that challenges what they accept.

Charles Tichenor: 00:12:52

And, you know, the biggest struggle there is, or the biggest pain point

Charles Tichenor: 00:12:56

for them is if you're going to believe these folks, then you're going to

Charles Tichenor: 00:12:59

also believe that you hopeless.

Charles Tichenor: 00:13:02

And the honest truth is they're wrong and there's a path.

Charles Tichenor: 00:13:05

Yeah.

Joshua Maddux: 00:13:06

Well, I think so much of that, your point to the

Joshua Maddux: 00:13:09

aspect of, you know, you can, you can go to your kitchen right now

Joshua Maddux: 00:13:14

and arbitrarily grab ingredients.

Joshua Maddux: 00:13:17

And if you do that 10,000 times.

Joshua Maddux: 00:13:21

And you pull up a recipe at random 10,000 times, you might have a chance

Joshua Maddux: 00:13:28

of grabbing the right ingredients for that random blind recipe.

Joshua Maddux: 00:13:32

And so you're like, oh look, I grabbed all the right items.

Joshua Maddux: 00:13:37

And I made this amazing thing.

Joshua Maddux: 00:13:38

And what sadly agencies like you're talking about, aren't saying is

Joshua Maddux: 00:13:44

yes, we hope these, we have these 10 case studies that are amazing.

Joshua Maddux: 00:13:48

But we've worked with 40,000 companies.

Joshua Maddux: 00:13:52

Sure.

Joshua Maddux: 00:13:53

And so the success rate is tiny and it's not to say that.

Joshua Maddux: 00:14:01

It's a hundred percent of the agency's fault because maybe the client didn't

Joshua Maddux: 00:14:05

understand who their customer was or they got into a space that, you know, I know

Joshua Maddux: 00:14:09

in the state of California, like bail bonds has changed so drastically with

Joshua Maddux: 00:14:15

different laws in the state of California.

Joshua Maddux: 00:14:18

And so you get legislation that comes in and shifts a whole entire market.

Joshua Maddux: 00:14:23

You get things like Facebook ads.

Joshua Maddux: 00:14:26

You know, now if you're going to do real estate or auto loans or anything, you have

Joshua Maddux: 00:14:30

to check the box and say that it is that.

Joshua Maddux: 00:14:32

And then that changes what you can target.

Joshua Maddux: 00:14:35

And so there's legislative changes that are outside of people's controls.

Joshua Maddux: 00:14:41

There's a lot of stuff.

Joshua Maddux: 00:14:43

Is within a business's control, but a lot that's outside of as well.

Joshua Maddux: 00:14:46

You know, things like the market and where we are just globally.

Joshua Maddux: 00:14:52

But so how looking at these challenges of just the Facebook platform and the

Joshua Maddux: 00:15:01

element of so many businesses attempting to use it as basically the way to

Joshua Maddux: 00:15:07

just make a million dollars overnight.

Joshua Maddux: 00:15:12

How do businesses overcome this of having a sex, you know, a successful campaign?

Joshua Maddux: 00:15:18

Yeah, I mean,

Charles Tichenor: 00:15:19

I think, and I've been in those agencies too, where it was like,

Charles Tichenor: 00:15:25

I mean, honestly, the agency model there for some color is like you get two or

Charles Tichenor: 00:15:29

three flagship product projects that make a bunch of money, and then you have your

Charles Tichenor: 00:15:34

sales team bringing a whole bunch of folks who you don't even expect to be there six

Charles Tichenor: 00:15:38

months from now to bring in your cash.

Charles Tichenor: 00:15:40

And hopefully one of them becomes something you can invest

Charles Tichenor: 00:15:42

in, or that you can, you can build your brand off of again.

Charles Tichenor: 00:15:45

And the churn rate on.

Charles Tichenor: 00:15:47

Raisie I mean, 90 day contracts to see whether or not you're going to

Charles Tichenor: 00:15:52

be able to strike oil with somebody.

Charles Tichenor: 00:15:54

And that's why brands are on agency seven and two years because they

Charles Tichenor: 00:15:58

just keep getting spit out because nobody's like, well, our turnkey

Charles Tichenor: 00:16:02

system doesn't work for you because we would require us to do work.

Charles Tichenor: 00:16:07

Outside of what we've trained everybody to do and require us to work with

Charles Tichenor: 00:16:11

you, to develop your business model, to make things work, or maybe you're

Charles Tichenor: 00:16:14

not willing to listen to them.

Charles Tichenor: 00:16:16

So your point to make the client could be the problem.

Charles Tichenor: 00:16:19

And so I've seen that over and over and over again.

Charles Tichenor: 00:16:22

And to, to answer deeper into your question, one of the things

Charles Tichenor: 00:16:26

that really comes in handy, or that we face a lot, that when I'm

Charles Tichenor: 00:16:31

trying to have conversations with.

Charles Tichenor: 00:16:35

We have to shift the mindset of Facebook is what's going to

Charles Tichenor: 00:16:38

make my business successful.

Charles Tichenor: 00:16:42

You have to think of it as your own fuel for the fire.

Charles Tichenor: 00:16:45

If you don't have a successful business, then it's not going to improve things.

Charles Tichenor: 00:16:51

It is going to amplify wherever you're at.

Charles Tichenor: 00:16:55

So if you're losing money right now, because your business isn't.

Charles Tichenor: 00:17:01

Throwing money at Facebook is only going to magnify that loss.

Charles Tichenor: 00:17:05

And if you have a successful business where Facebook can be

Charles Tichenor: 00:17:08

the thing that amplifies it, then you're in a great space.

Charles Tichenor: 00:17:11

So a lot of this comes down to, in my opinion, the job of a media buyer,

Charles Tichenor: 00:17:16

Facebook, or whatever is really to understand at a very rudimentary level,

Charles Tichenor: 00:17:21

your budget this month might be $10,000.

Charles Tichenor: 00:17:24

Why isn't it 20?

Charles Tichenor: 00:17:27

What is wrong with your business?

Charles Tichenor: 00:17:29

Or what can we fix to double this budget?

Charles Tichenor: 00:17:31

Now I can do the best thing.

Charles Tichenor: 00:17:32

I can return you an investment, but ultimately it's about me looking at the

Charles Tichenor: 00:17:36

data that I have and understanding that customer flow in your business model to

Charles Tichenor: 00:17:40

understand why you can't give me twice as much money to go acquire customers or.

Charles Tichenor: 00:17:46

Should we be spending it all, but like, what is it about your customers

Charles Tichenor: 00:17:50

and your clients and their businesses that is preventing them from being

Charles Tichenor: 00:17:54

able to feed this more and more?

Charles Tichenor: 00:17:56

Because the honest truth is if everything works, then it's just

Charles Tichenor: 00:18:00

a run rate of like, well, how much money do we have in the bank?

Charles Tichenor: 00:18:03

And that number should go up on a consistent basis.

Charles Tichenor: 00:18:06

If you're good at your job, that budget should not be.

Charles Tichenor: 00:18:11

And so a lot of this comes into working very closely with those businesses.

Charles Tichenor: 00:18:16

And at the end of the day, the best media buyers that I know are project

Charles Tichenor: 00:18:20

managers that are really good at business development because the

Charles Tichenor: 00:18:24

system is smarter than all of us.

Charles Tichenor: 00:18:26

And for lack of a better word, it's the best way to use it is to keep

Charles Tichenor: 00:18:31

it as simple as possible so that you can invest in all your resources and

Charles Tichenor: 00:18:35

understanding and improving everything that happens after the click.

Joshua Maddux: 00:18:40

Yeah, I want to hone in on something because you

Joshua Maddux: 00:18:43

said something there that is huge.

Joshua Maddux: 00:18:47

You're talking about.

Joshua Maddux: 00:18:48

Investing in marketing and it's going to magnify whatever the problem is.

Joshua Maddux: 00:18:54

If it's a successful business, it's going to, you know, two X, three

Joshua Maddux: 00:18:58

X, 10 X, whatever that business is, if the business is losing

Joshua Maddux: 00:19:02

cash, it's going to magnify that.

Joshua Maddux: 00:19:05

And I think that's so key.

Joshua Maddux: 00:19:08

To marketing just as a whole irrelevant of the platform, because so many businesses

Joshua Maddux: 00:19:14

don't understand that they have to have processes and procedures in place.

Joshua Maddux: 00:19:19

Because if a business is used to getting referrals,

Joshua Maddux: 00:19:23

referrals, aren't a ton of work.

Joshua Maddux: 00:19:25

If they're a service-based business or whatever, where a lead from Facebook

Joshua Maddux: 00:19:30

is very different than a referral from a friend of a friend or whoever.

Joshua Maddux: 00:19:37

The sales process for referral is done.

Joshua Maddux: 00:19:39

They're just looking for a price point to book a call or to book the service

Joshua Maddux: 00:19:44

where a cold lead there's education.

Joshua Maddux: 00:19:48

There's a more of a relationship building aspect.

Joshua Maddux: 00:19:52

And so if that business doesn't have, and I liked the point you brought up

Joshua Maddux: 00:19:55

with the business development, the best Facebook, you know, the best

Joshua Maddux: 00:19:58

media buyers are business development.

Joshua Maddux: 00:20:00

People.

Joshua Maddux: 00:20:01

Because if those processes aren't in place and they don't have a good CRM

Joshua Maddux: 00:20:07

system or a good lead generation to conversion flow or funnel, then doesn't

Joshua Maddux: 00:20:16

matter how much money you spend.

Joshua Maddux: 00:20:19

It's not going to work.

Charles Tichenor: 00:20:21

Yeah.

Charles Tichenor: 00:20:22

Yeah.

Charles Tichenor: 00:20:22

And I think that's, and I've noticed this more and more, especially as.

Charles Tichenor: 00:20:30

And the last couple of years, when I really started to work with agency

Charles Tichenor: 00:20:36

development and brand development at seven and eight figure businesses,

Charles Tichenor: 00:20:42

I heard the same complaints from dozens or hundreds of people.

Charles Tichenor: 00:20:46

And I, my DMS on Twitter are full of these folks where they're like, Hey,

Charles Tichenor: 00:20:50

these are the experts in the space and they don't know what's going

Charles Tichenor: 00:20:53

on or they're complaining a lot.

Charles Tichenor: 00:20:55

Or they keep telling me that this is the next solution.

Charles Tichenor: 00:20:59

And my response to them is like, they're the experts in the space and

Charles Tichenor: 00:21:04

running a business that gets you to pay them to think that they're the

Charles Tichenor: 00:21:07

experts that has nothing to do with them actually being good at their job.

Charles Tichenor: 00:21:12

And then they say, well, here's this case that this business might get a

Charles Tichenor: 00:21:16

business run by an extraordinarily successful business person.

Charles Tichenor: 00:21:20

And this is the partner they went with.

Joshua Maddux: 00:21:22

Well, and that's where I love the ones.

Joshua Maddux: 00:21:24

I get Facebook ads running a digital agency, myself.

Joshua Maddux: 00:21:27

I get Facebook ads from, oh, I ran a digital agency for five years and now

Joshua Maddux: 00:21:32

I want to train you on how to do it.

Joshua Maddux: 00:21:34

And I'm like, wait, so what are you doing now?

Joshua Maddux: 00:21:36

You, you left your digital agency job and you're not running it anymore.

Joshua Maddux: 00:21:40

So you're going to train me on what happened five years ago.

Joshua Maddux: 00:21:45

I mean, if.

Joshua Maddux: 00:21:47

If you took the tactics that you first started learning and the

Joshua Maddux: 00:21:51

advertising methodology that you first started learning the first day

Joshua Maddux: 00:21:56

that you did any type of advertising and tried implementing that now.

Joshua Maddux: 00:22:02

That's going to provide different results then what you use today.

Joshua Maddux: 00:22:07

And that might just be content strategy.

Joshua Maddux: 00:22:10

That might be colors.

Joshua Maddux: 00:22:11

That might be, who knows what photography, you know, I look back,

Joshua Maddux: 00:22:15

you go to anybody's Instagram and you scroll all the way back to the bottom

Joshua Maddux: 00:22:18

of their feed and everybody has.

Joshua Maddux: 00:22:21

That image with like the, it looks like someone cut it out on paper

Joshua Maddux: 00:22:25

with the little, you know, Russell, everybody's got that same filter because

Joshua Maddux: 00:22:29

that's what we all used back then.

Joshua Maddux: 00:22:31

You don't do that anymore.

Joshua Maddux: 00:22:32

Now it's overly saturated and processed and it's a very different look.

Joshua Maddux: 00:22:38

And so just that someone just posting personal stuff, we're not

Joshua Maddux: 00:22:42

even talking about specific ads and then you go into the ad space and

Joshua Maddux: 00:22:46

you look at, you know, what it adds.

Joshua Maddux: 00:22:49

You know, a few years ago versus today.

Joshua Maddux: 00:22:52

And so I think that shift of so many businesses say, oh, well,

Joshua Maddux: 00:22:57

this worked for this person four years ago, I'm going to try it.

Joshua Maddux: 00:23:02

It's trends change.

Charles Tichenor: 00:23:04

And so things change.

Charles Tichenor: 00:23:08

And I think it's really good to be on top of that change.

Charles Tichenor: 00:23:13

And then there's also the inverse of these things too, of like, I feel

Charles Tichenor: 00:23:19

like a lot of people take that to the nth degree of content is one thing.

Charles Tichenor: 00:23:23

And strategy is something else which I might agree with or not, but it really

Charles Tichenor: 00:23:26

depends on how your business is going.

Charles Tichenor: 00:23:29

But one of the biggest liabilities that I see out in the space is everybody's

Charles Tichenor: 00:23:33

saying something along the lines of.

Charles Tichenor: 00:23:36

And one of the things I hear all the time is like, none of my

Charles Tichenor: 00:23:38

lookalikes are working right now.

Charles Tichenor: 00:23:40

And it's like, that probably means you're using them wrong.

Charles Tichenor: 00:23:45

Or people saying, well, like this attribution model, doesn't

Charles Tichenor: 00:23:48

this, this, this optimization window doesn't work anymore.

Charles Tichenor: 00:23:52

You got to switch to this thing.

Charles Tichenor: 00:23:53

And it's like, well, that has nothing to do with it.

Charles Tichenor: 00:23:55

Like there are some constants that you have to keep in and there's some ways

Charles Tichenor: 00:24:00

of thinking about the problem solving.

Charles Tichenor: 00:24:01

I, I think one of the biggest.

Charles Tichenor: 00:24:06

Liabilities is a fundamental misunderstanding of how these platforms

Charles Tichenor: 00:24:11

function and what their business objectives are and how they're supposed

Charles Tichenor: 00:24:15

to, how they're trying to reach them.

Charles Tichenor: 00:24:17

I mean, as a very high level, for instance, Facebook itself and Instagram

Charles Tichenor: 00:24:24

and their whole entire business model is they sell attention for profits.

Charles Tichenor: 00:24:29

If you want to be successful and you want to mitigate high cost.

Charles Tichenor: 00:24:34

You have to make the attention that you buy good for Facebook's bottom line.

Charles Tichenor: 00:24:40

So if your ads or your content isn't appealing, you're going

Charles Tichenor: 00:24:46

to be sewing to less people.

Charles Tichenor: 00:24:48

And we see this with organic.

Charles Tichenor: 00:24:49

Like if your post isn't good, you get less likes and less reach.

Charles Tichenor: 00:24:54

Well, if your ad isn't good, you get less.

Charles Tichenor: 00:24:58

Now ad good for you.

Charles Tichenor: 00:25:00

Versus Facebook are two very different things for Facebook.

Charles Tichenor: 00:25:03

It's about their estimated action rate and a whole bunch of other

Charles Tichenor: 00:25:05

acronyms we can get down to.

Charles Tichenor: 00:25:06

But basically if your ad is being shown to somebody and they're are not

Charles Tichenor: 00:25:11

likely to respond positively, or it causes them to leave, then you're a

Charles Tichenor: 00:25:16

liability to Facebook's business model.

Charles Tichenor: 00:25:20

When we're getting into that.

Charles Tichenor: 00:25:22

One of the biggest issues that we see around, for instance, audience

Charles Tichenor: 00:25:26

targeting or all this other stuff is if you're trying to take an ad

Charles Tichenor: 00:25:31

and find who can you force this content to so that it might work.

Charles Tichenor: 00:25:36

You're immediately disrespecting the end user and your business partner,

Charles Tichenor: 00:25:41

because there's a real person on the other end of that dollar.

Charles Tichenor: 00:25:44

And there's an entire platform.

Charles Tichenor: 00:25:45

And there's a reason why the same people that complain about which audience

Charles Tichenor: 00:25:49

is working in which attribution model or optimization window was working,

Charles Tichenor: 00:25:53

are also complaining about their CPMs, because Facebook is saying.

Charles Tichenor: 00:25:58

You're not a good, you're not a good faith partner to us.

Charles Tichenor: 00:26:02

We know you're out here, but you're a liability to our business success.

Charles Tichenor: 00:26:05

So we're going to charge you more money to exist.

Charles Tichenor: 00:26:09

And then also if your delivery times on accurate or people complain

Charles Tichenor: 00:26:13

about your product or your customer services, Then you're also a liability

Charles Tichenor: 00:26:18

because phase people are getting upset that they saw that Facebook

Charles Tichenor: 00:26:21

ad and they're getting angry.

Charles Tichenor: 00:26:22

So because your business isn't run with respect to the customer,

Charles Tichenor: 00:26:26

Facebook is also going to ping you your page scores, what they call it.

Charles Tichenor: 00:26:31

If your page score is below a two, you can't even run business.

Charles Tichenor: 00:26:33

Now that doesn't necessarily mean anything to anybody, but you pay the score.

Charles Tichenor: 00:26:37

If it's above, if you increase your page score from like a two and

Charles Tichenor: 00:26:40

a half to like a four and a half your costs for advertising, same

Charles Tichenor: 00:26:43

exact ad, same exact audience, same exact everything might drop by 50%.

Charles Tichenor: 00:26:49

Because Facebook has deemed, oh, now you're a good player.

Charles Tichenor: 00:26:51

Now you are taking care of our, our business model.

Charles Tichenor: 00:26:56

And so when people try to solve their problems, they're always trying to

Charles Tichenor: 00:26:59

figure out like, how do we get the sale?

Charles Tichenor: 00:27:00

What do we do this?

Charles Tichenor: 00:27:01

What's the audience for all of these things.

Charles Tichenor: 00:27:04

And then forget.

Charles Tichenor: 00:27:06

It's all about matching the content with the end user that the person wants to see.

Charles Tichenor: 00:27:10

And maybe the reason that that ad that doesn't meet your business objectives is

Charles Tichenor: 00:27:15

getting all of the spend is because it's the ad that people want to see the most.

Charles Tichenor: 00:27:19

And your job is to really manage that balance.

Charles Tichenor: 00:27:23

And if you think about it in those simple terms, if every decision is how do I

Charles Tichenor: 00:27:29

make the end user's experience better?

Charles Tichenor: 00:27:32

Well also magnifying my needs as a business for the one thing I'm asking

Charles Tichenor: 00:27:37

Facebook to do in a way that also lets the platform, make all of the informed

Charles Tichenor: 00:27:42

decisions it possibly can to give me the most consistent results, then you

Charles Tichenor: 00:27:48

aren't going to be solving the problem in a way that the vast majority of.

Charles Tichenor: 00:27:53

Experts and gurus and agencies, whatever won't present to you

Charles Tichenor: 00:27:57

because it also undermines their validity as an advertiser.

Charles Tichenor: 00:28:00

If, if the answer to your successes, creative tested broad and work on your

Charles Tichenor: 00:28:05

business model, the person who is most threatened by that is the company that

Charles Tichenor: 00:28:10

relies on these massive spreadsheets and great PowerPoint decks in a

Charles Tichenor: 00:28:16

percentage of your ad spend to run.

Charles Tichenor: 00:28:20

Because it's a insecurity that they have of like, I can't provide value if I can't

Charles Tichenor: 00:28:28

press a bunch of buttons and show you a bunch of information and the honest truth.

Charles Tichenor: 00:28:32

You know, who doesn't care about that information is the person that

Charles Tichenor: 00:28:35

owns the company that hired you.

Charles Tichenor: 00:28:38

They don't care when you get on a client call as an agency.

Charles Tichenor: 00:28:42

The number one goal of that call is to get off the phone as fast as possible.

Charles Tichenor: 00:28:46

Make the person that hired you look good to their boss and make the results

Charles Tichenor: 00:28:49

this month, better than last month.

Charles Tichenor: 00:28:52

If there is anything that gets in the way of that, then it

Charles Tichenor: 00:28:55

is a liability to your time.

Charles Tichenor: 00:28:57

And it is bad for business for you to dive in.

Charles Tichenor: 00:29:02

But I feel like that is something where somebody that isn't competent

Charles Tichenor: 00:29:06

delivering that result needs to lean on other things to feel important.

Charles Tichenor: 00:29:10

And now these business owners have been told over and over again by every agency.

Charles Tichenor: 00:29:14

Well, it's this interest group, it's all the things.

Charles Tichenor: 00:29:15

They start asking questions because they've been burned.

Charles Tichenor: 00:29:17

Like what about this?

Charles Tichenor: 00:29:18

And what about that night?

Charles Tichenor: 00:29:19

My response to the malls.

Charles Tichenor: 00:29:21

Like if they ask me what our CPCs are rising too high, my

Charles Tichenor: 00:29:24

response is doesn't matter.

Charles Tichenor: 00:29:26

And they're like, our CTRs are dropping.

Charles Tichenor: 00:29:29

Like I don't.

Charles Tichenor: 00:29:31

And they're like, well, what are you talking about?

Charles Tichenor: 00:29:32

I'm like, did you make more money this month?

Charles Tichenor: 00:29:35

Did we reach your goal better?

Charles Tichenor: 00:29:37

And their answer is, well, yeah, we're doing better off.

Charles Tichenor: 00:29:39

It's like, great.

Charles Tichenor: 00:29:40

So stop worrying about these things.

Charles Tichenor: 00:29:42

That mean nothing.

Charles Tichenor: 00:29:43

And I do legitimately mean Roaz CPC, CTR, CPMs.

Charles Tichenor: 00:29:48

I like to use the term garbage metric.

Charles Tichenor: 00:29:50

They don't mean anything.

Charles Tichenor: 00:29:51

They're not actionable.

Charles Tichenor: 00:29:53

What is your desired efficiency on your target results?

Charles Tichenor: 00:29:57

Can we meet that or do better than it has.

Charles Tichenor: 00:30:00

All of those other things are market

Joshua Maddux: 00:30:01

forces.

Joshua Maddux: 00:30:02

Well, and that's really where so many businesses can get just

Joshua Maddux: 00:30:06

overwhelmed with the amount of data that Facebook can spit out and.

Joshua Maddux: 00:30:13

You can analysis, you know, paralysis type element and you can get in there

Joshua Maddux: 00:30:19

and go, well, this number moved.

Joshua Maddux: 00:30:20

Okay, cool.

Joshua Maddux: 00:30:21

Great.

Joshua Maddux: 00:30:21

We don't care like, and you're right.

Joshua Maddux: 00:30:23

If your, if your cost per lead, if your cost per lead or cost per sale is

Joshua Maddux: 00:30:29

lower than the target, doesn't matter.

Joshua Maddux: 00:30:33

Doesn't matter.

Joshua Maddux: 00:30:34

As long as you're, like you said, making money.

Joshua Maddux: 00:30:38

If all of a sudden your cost per lead went from a dollar to $17.

Joshua Maddux: 00:30:44

And that means you're no longer making money and you're barely

Joshua Maddux: 00:30:48

breaking, even then there's a problem.

Joshua Maddux: 00:30:50

And you got to figure out what, and that's where the rest of

Joshua Maddux: 00:30:53

those numbers come into play.

Joshua Maddux: 00:30:55

And you can start to sort of diagnose things and see, oh, it's because

Joshua Maddux: 00:30:59

there's an engagement issue or because there's, you know, other aspects.

Joshua Maddux: 00:31:05

Yeah, it's it's crazy.

Joshua Maddux: 00:31:07

I know we could probably spend the next five hours talking

Joshua Maddux: 00:31:11

about the crazy, went to a

Charles Tichenor: 00:31:12

brick wall about this stuff.

Charles Tichenor: 00:31:13

So I'm doing the face.

Charles Tichenor: 00:31:15

Like the hard problem is I'm really passionate about this stuff.

Charles Tichenor: 00:31:17

And I also, it used to be a radio DJ.

Charles Tichenor: 00:31:20

So like, I don't need an audience other than the microphone to just wax poetic

Charles Tichenor: 00:31:24

until like the sun comes back around.

Joshua Maddux: 00:31:27

That's awesome.

Joshua Maddux: 00:31:28

That's awesome.

Joshua Maddux: 00:31:29

Well, I've definitely enjoyed our conversation and I think, you

Joshua Maddux: 00:31:32

know, what is, what is your advice to someone who is sort of facing

Joshua Maddux: 00:31:38

these challenges of marketing?

Joshua Maddux: 00:31:40

You know, what's your advice to them right now?

Charles Tichenor: 00:31:42

Yeah, I mean, I'll give it in three big things.

Charles Tichenor: 00:31:45

Number one, juror number one objectives in any marketing effort.

Charles Tichenor: 00:31:53

And I'll be brutally honest is to make the person that hires you

Charles Tichenor: 00:31:56

look good to the person that signs their paycheck, understand what

Charles Tichenor: 00:32:00

that motivation is very high level.

Charles Tichenor: 00:32:03

What is going to make that person elevate?

Charles Tichenor: 00:32:05

Cause they're the man.

Charles Tichenor: 00:32:06

They're the gatekeeper of that relationship.

Charles Tichenor: 00:32:10

Understand that motivation and meet it and beat their expectation.

Charles Tichenor: 00:32:14

That's your only objective bottom line.

Charles Tichenor: 00:32:17

That is how you get things done.

Charles Tichenor: 00:32:20

Number two is understand very clearly what the business objective

Charles Tichenor: 00:32:28

that you're asking Facebook to accomplish is, and also understand

Charles Tichenor: 00:32:33

if it's two or three objectives, you're going to do them poorly.

Charles Tichenor: 00:32:38

You can do one or two things very well, or you can do horribly at

Charles Tichenor: 00:32:44

10 things, and that's a choice.

Charles Tichenor: 00:32:47

You can either use the tool appropriately.

Charles Tichenor: 00:32:50

Or misuse the devices in front of you and saviors and sort of victim.

Charles Tichenor: 00:32:56

Like it's a choice.

Charles Tichenor: 00:32:59

The last thing is golden rule that I have found.

Charles Tichenor: 00:33:06

If your bright idea involves adding complexity to the environment,

Charles Tichenor: 00:33:14

you're wrong, there is.

Charles Tichenor: 00:33:17

95 90 8% of solutions do not require an added level of complexity.

Charles Tichenor: 00:33:25

Now there is some where it's absolutely needed, but that is

Charles Tichenor: 00:33:30

the rare exceptions, the case.

Charles Tichenor: 00:33:31

Now, obviously there are times when you should, but those

Charles Tichenor: 00:33:34

tend to be luxury problems.

Charles Tichenor: 00:33:37

And I'm even talking about like, do you need a retargeting campaign?

Charles Tichenor: 00:33:42

I don't think you do until you're spending a lot of money or you don't have enough

Charles Tichenor: 00:33:46

money to afford prospecting because Facebook totally retargeting for you.

Charles Tichenor: 00:33:51

And we know that they do otherwise.

Charles Tichenor: 00:33:52

You wouldn't have been taught since the first day that you

Charles Tichenor: 00:33:54

need to have exclusions in place.

Charles Tichenor: 00:33:56

Those exclusions exist because it's already doing that.

Charles Tichenor: 00:33:59

Can you afford to have four campaigns all spend money and get them all out

Charles Tichenor: 00:34:03

of learning phase and deliver a result where you can then manage every single

Charles Tichenor: 00:34:06

test that was acquired for each one of those customer journeys before

Charles Tichenor: 00:34:09

the click and afterwards, and then treat all those customers differently.

Charles Tichenor: 00:34:12

Can you really legitimately manage that better for the business's bottom

Charles Tichenor: 00:34:16

line to make that person that hired you look good more than doing one thing?

Charles Tichenor: 00:34:19

Really?

Charles Tichenor: 00:34:19

Well, the honest truth is probably no.

Charles Tichenor: 00:34:22

I mean, yes, that's true.

Charles Tichenor: 00:34:24

You can chase.

Charles Tichenor: 00:34:26

But that happens in you're spending 10, 20, 30, $50,000 a day.

Charles Tichenor: 00:34:31

I I've had a million dollar a month run rate budget, and we did two things.

Charles Tichenor: 00:34:39

The most successful businesses are built around that level of simplicity.

Charles Tichenor: 00:34:44

So I would challenge you to not have some Rube Goldberg device

Charles Tichenor: 00:34:49

to try to solve your problem.

Charles Tichenor: 00:34:51

The brilliance is in binding a simpler way.

Charles Tichenor: 00:34:56

And that's where all your time should be spent.

Charles Tichenor: 00:34:58

And one little honorable mention, you don't need to spend more than 90 minutes

Charles Tichenor: 00:35:05

a day in any Facebook ad account.

Charles Tichenor: 00:35:07

That's unless you are building things and the system is crashing on

Charles Tichenor: 00:35:12

you set a timer and force yourself to be good enough to get done.

Charles Tichenor: 00:35:17

And if it requires more time, then you're too complex and

Charles Tichenor: 00:35:20

you're getting in your own way.

Charles Tichenor: 00:35:21

Hard work is the antithesis of what you should be doing.

Charles Tichenor: 00:35:26

That that'd be kind of what I would have to

Joshua Maddux: 00:35:28

say.

Joshua Maddux: 00:35:28

Yeah, that's really good.

Joshua Maddux: 00:35:30

I mean, so basically my, my big takeaways with this are, is understanding

Joshua Maddux: 00:35:34

who the heck you're marketing.

Joshua Maddux: 00:35:37

And pick one goal, do it well.

Joshua Maddux: 00:35:41

Yeah.

Joshua Maddux: 00:35:42

And, and keep it simple.

Joshua Maddux: 00:35:44

You don't need, like you said, you don't need retargeting campaigns.

Joshua Maddux: 00:35:46

Retargeting campaigns are great once your primary campaign is working or

Joshua Maddux: 00:35:53

once, but it's not, you know, doing multiple things at the same time.

Joshua Maddux: 00:35:58

And that's really where I think so many businesses get

Joshua Maddux: 00:36:02

so hung up in the aspect of.

Joshua Maddux: 00:36:05

But it has 40 tools.

Joshua Maddux: 00:36:07

And just that it has 40 tools doesn't mean you need to use

Joshua Maddux: 00:36:11

all of them at the same time.

Charles Tichenor: 00:36:12

Yeah.

Charles Tichenor: 00:36:14

And you know, with all those tools, you don't have to worry about all the things

Charles Tichenor: 00:36:18

that this shows you, all those metrics.

Charles Tichenor: 00:36:20

Like I have made Facebook ad campaigns so efficient with such a high row as

Charles Tichenor: 00:36:26

that the company almost went out of business because we lost the scope

Charles Tichenor: 00:36:30

of what we're actually trying to do.

Charles Tichenor: 00:36:33

And you can try to take credit for everybody's work or you can keep

Charles Tichenor: 00:36:36

those golden that north star in mind.

Charles Tichenor: 00:36:39

And yeah, I would run.

Charles Tichenor: 00:36:45

Way quickly from anybody trying to tell you the solution is more complication

Charles Tichenor: 00:36:51

or around audiences or around running another sale or any of these things,

Charles Tichenor: 00:36:57

because what it means is they're not invested in your longterm success.

Charles Tichenor: 00:37:00

They're invested in making you feel good about that relationship early enough,

Charles Tichenor: 00:37:04

that you're going to sign on for more and.

Charles Tichenor: 00:37:09

If somebody isn't respectful of your relationship in that way, and ultimately

Charles Tichenor: 00:37:13

disrespects your customers, then they're not a partner you should be dealing with.

Charles Tichenor: 00:37:16

And that's the way Facebook views you as well.

Charles Tichenor: 00:37:20

So you got to remember the rules of the game you're playing.

Charles Tichenor: 00:37:25

And sadly we do not get to control those rules, but we're just playing

Charles Tichenor: 00:37:28

the game along with, and you can pay me to play that game for you, but

Charles Tichenor: 00:37:32

we're still gonna have to play by

Joshua Maddux: 00:37:33

those rules.

Joshua Maddux: 00:37:34

And if you decide not to play by the rules, Facebook will let you know.

Joshua Maddux: 00:37:38

Oh yeah.

Joshua Maddux: 00:37:39

People are like, why am I

Charles Tichenor: 00:37:40

counts constantly getting banned.

Charles Tichenor: 00:37:41

I'm like quit trying to hack the system and we make way more money by

Charles Tichenor: 00:37:46

staying in business than you ever will.

Charles Tichenor: 00:37:49

Like trying to cheat it.

Charles Tichenor: 00:37:51

Short con is a terrible business model.

Charles Tichenor: 00:37:54

If you want to still be in business in a year or five or 10 or whatever.

Charles Tichenor: 00:38:00

Yeah.

Joshua Maddux: 00:38:02

Well, it's been really awesome talking with you for those who are

Joshua Maddux: 00:38:05

listening, how can people find you online?

Charles Tichenor: 00:38:08

Sure.

Charles Tichenor: 00:38:09

So my socials are all at CT.

Charles Tichenor: 00:38:12

The disruptor, you can just type in Facebook, disruptor into

Charles Tichenor: 00:38:14

Google and you will get either the disruptive group from the Facebook.

Charles Tichenor: 00:38:18

Community the legitimate, like straight up, like this is the people, the top a

Charles Tichenor: 00:38:21

hundred advertisers or you'll find me.

Charles Tichenor: 00:38:24

And I'm basically out there doing teaching on YouTube, Twitter, Instagram, whatever.

Charles Tichenor: 00:38:29

And the honest truth is everybody has their why most of the people

Charles Tichenor: 00:38:33

in the Facebook disruptor group or elite level managers or marketers or

Charles Tichenor: 00:38:37

CMOs or running agencies and stuff, my why was when I started nobody.

Charles Tichenor: 00:38:43

Ms.

Charles Tichenor: 00:38:43

Teaching these kinds of things.

Charles Tichenor: 00:38:45

And I've been to so many conventions where people poorly misquoted my

Charles Tichenor: 00:38:49

own case studies that I kind of got hurt and got a chip on my shoulder.

Charles Tichenor: 00:38:53

And I found there's a great opportunity to just be an board player, to try to help

Charles Tichenor: 00:38:58

people get better and pays my mortgage.

Charles Tichenor: 00:39:03

It puts food on my table and there's enough of a room to

Charles Tichenor: 00:39:07

try to be a decent person.

Charles Tichenor: 00:39:09

And.

Charles Tichenor: 00:39:10

Yeah, that that's, that's, that's my why.

Charles Tichenor: 00:39:13

And for anybody that's asking, the reason I don't run my own brands is

Charles Tichenor: 00:39:16

I'm unable to lack emotion and running e-commerce stores if it's my money.

Charles Tichenor: 00:39:21

So I've learned that mistake, I can be brutal with other people's money, but when

Charles Tichenor: 00:39:26

it's my dollar, I'm just terrible at it.

Charles Tichenor: 00:39:28

I get too emotionally invested.

Charles Tichenor: 00:39:30

So like I failed at those things.

Charles Tichenor: 00:39:32

I'm really good doing it for other people.

Charles Tichenor: 00:39:33

I'm terrible at doing it myself because I do not have the ability.

Charles Tichenor: 00:39:39

To be analytical and actually make decisions that I can't take

Charles Tichenor: 00:39:44

my own advice if it's my own dollar, I'll put it that way.

Joshua Maddux: 00:39:48

Yeah.

Joshua Maddux: 00:39:48

Awesome.

Joshua Maddux: 00:39:49

Well, it's been super good chatting with you and appreciate you coming on and yeah.

Joshua Maddux: 00:39:54

Thank you so much.

Joshua Maddux: 00:39:56

Thanks for listening to this episode of, in the bunker.

Joshua Maddux: 00:39:59

As always we can be found on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter

Joshua Maddux: 00:40:03

at, in the bunker podcast.

Joshua Maddux: 00:40:05

Be sure to share this episode and what you're going to apply from it.

Joshua Maddux: 00:40:10

And how that can affect your business, make sure to tag us in that post so

Joshua Maddux: 00:40:15

we can highlight your journey as well.

Joshua Maddux: 00:40:17

But before you go.

Joshua Maddux: 00:40:18

I have a quick personal ask.